Joe Burgos of Piel Canela From Wall Street to the Dance Floor By Tasleem Rajwani

It was great to meet up with Joe at his office in Midtown, Manhattan. Though I showed up a little early, and he was finishing up a business phone call at his desk, Joe made sure to interrupt the call to give me a warm welcome. I took a seat on a leather chair on one side of the room. On the other side, near the door, a clothing rack with sequined performance vests and dresses caught my eye. Once off the phone, Joe came over with his coffee cup and sat on the chair across from me. His enthusiasm and charisma throughout the interview was greatly appreciated.

Tasleem: Where did the name Piel Canela come from?

Joe: That's a good question (laughs). The name Piel Canela came from a song. Well, actually, it came from two sources, I would say. The first source is from a song by Joe Arroyo called Mi Libertad. The lyrics describe how when the Africans first came to the Caribbean, or were brought to the Caribbean, and the Europeans came to the Caribbean, they intermixed. For the first time ever, there was a new set of people that had this brown skin, which at the time we called a cinnamon skin colour. The name Piel Canela literally translates to "cinnamon skin". So we decided to go with that name, because as the song says, when the Europeans left and went to the mainland into the Americas, and the Africans were also sent to the Americas, the people who stayed behind were made of this entirely new mulatto race, which was a combination of Europeans and Africans. They had this "piel canela," and this intermixing eventually gave way to our music and dance and culture. I found it very interesting and thought it would be a good name.

The second source was from something I saw at the Museo de la Salsa. There was a big display on Bobby Capo there, and he sings a song titled Piel Canela. This reinforced my initial idea. And I thought "piel canela" describes the colour of my skin too, so I decided to go with it and take the name.

Piel Canela just had an anniversary recently, right?

Yes, we just celebrated our eight year anniversary! (smiles). Piel Canela started in 2000. I had been teaching awhile before that, but under my own name and for other dance companies. It was in 2000 when I decided to branch off and do my own thing.

How does it feel to look back and see how far you've come? Do you remember when you started and how it felt back then?

Oh yeah! I remember EVERYTHING. They say that once you've been engaged in an activity for so long, you tend to only remember the highlights, but I really remember everything. We've gone through so many ups and downs and so many new ideas. There have been people whose lives we've touched, people who have become company members at one point, who still come see our events. We've been involved in schools or done shows for many companies. With all that we've done, it's hard to forget. Every year we have something new so it really stays in your memory. And we're only a year and a half away from being around for a decade. When that ten year mark comes around, it will be a huge accomplishment for us.

Speaking of ten years, I was reading in your bio that after ten years of being in finance…

Aw… jeez (laughs).

(laughs) Well, I just found it interesting that you had ten years of finance behind you, and you left it once you got more heavily into salsa.

(laughs) Yeah, well. I'm from a Latin background, right. And hispanic families don't view the arts as something economically viable.

Oh, so it's not just Indian families that are like that? (laughs).

(laughs) There you go. So you understand. So that makes it very difficult for people of Hispanic origin to really develop within the arts. I never encountered dance growing up. It wasn't until later in life. For us, it was more about business all the time. My family wanted me to take over the family business and it was instilled in me that I was going to do that for the rest of my life - go to business school, learn how to manage a business, and eventually come back and take over the family business.

I went to business school, did all that I had to do. But I never went back to my family. Instead, I stayed here in New York and got a degree in finance and economics, among other degrees, and eventually went into Wall Street. I had a good eight long year career as a stock broker and two years as an analyst

So what do you think was the impetus for the big change you made?
What ended my career was 911. If it wasn't for 911, I'd probably still be in finance. Once 911 happened, I kind of reevaluated what I wanted to do going forward and decided I wanted to try something that was completely different. I saw an opportunity in dance because I enjoyed it. But I also saw that many artists are not business minded, or don't have the know-how on the business side, so they really give that authority, or delegate that part of their business, to somebody else. I figured that hey, I have a business background and I was successful at business. And I have a knack at dance. I still don't consider myself an amazing dancer (laughs), but I have a little knack for dancing. So I thought, "Let's see if I can put them both together."

And it's been a roller coaster ride ever since. It has been a great combination and a good formula. It has propelled us where we are now.

How would you compare your Wall Street life to your Dance Life?

Oh my god! (laughs) Number one, there's less stress. There's definitely less stress. I wouldn't say that there's THAT much less, but there is definitely less. As opposed to dealing with other people's finances, now I'm dealing with my OWN finances, and the company's finances, and the school's finances. So it's less stress because instead of having three hundred clients, I only have one BIG client, which is my self. It's stressful because job security is certainly not there. If the business goes under, then I don't have a job. I'd have to go back to working somewhere else. But it's fun. It's a lot of fun, a lot of passion, a lot of my self in the business. Whereas before, I would say I was doing somebody else's business. I was following formulas, I was following numbers and it was so impersonal.

But now, it's VERY personal. It's about how we affect people's lives - the relationships and dynamics that happen within our classes and events. We get involved and we get attached to our students, our company members, our sponsors and donors. So it's very different, VERY different. Plus, before it was all about profit and now it's all about being non profit (LAUGHS).

So in that sense, it's a relief not to have to try to make a profit, or show your shareholders' profits. It's more about showing our students and our community the amount of progress that we have made, and how we are enhancing our community, and how we are helping our kids and teenagers and students learn more about Latin culture, music and dance.

You spent some time in the Dominican when you were younger, right?

I was born in New York, and I grew up here until about the age of eleven. At the age of twelve, my parents decided that it was time for me to learn more about my culture. So they sent me down to the Dominican Republic. I lived there until I was seventeen years old. So I was there for about five or six years. And when I decided to go to college, I came back to New York.

Did your time in the Dominican influence your interest in dance?

Oh yeah, absolutely. I grew up in Astoria, New York where I was turning into a metal head (laughs). At the time that I was growing up, it was all about heavy metal and rock music, and that was it. I remember getting off the plane in the Dominican Republic wearing an Iron Maiden shirt, ripped jeans and a bandana, and people looking at me like I was some kind of crazy nut (laughs).

What was different about dancing in the Dominican Republic?

Being in the Dominican Republic was very different than the United States. In the United States, when people dance, they don't do a lot of partner dancing. Even nowadays, you go to a regular club and it's very different. People don't really ask people to dance. They just slowly gravitate towards each other. And somehow, through body language, they communicate that they're dancing together. That's unbelievable to me.

Whereas, in the Dominican Republic, even at a very young age, when there was a party or a house party, you would have to ASK somebody to dance. And hopefully that person would say yes (laughs).
I think it's a great process. I never had a problem asking people to dance. As a matter of fact, I got INTO dance at that age because when I was in eighth or ninth grade, I would go to a house party, and there would be a group of people – usually the boys in one corner and the girls would be in the other corner. And the girls were having a bunch of fun. They were dancing, maybe with just one or two other guys on that side of the room. So I thought, "Which side of the room do I want to be on? Do I want to be hanging out with the boys or do I want to be dancing with the girls?" (laughs). I quickly decided that hanging out with the girls was easier and more fun. I went with that and obviously you had to learn how to dance. So that's where it all started.

What was your first dance experience?

I would say my first dance experience was me going home to my mom and saying, "Listen, I want to dance with these girls. How do I do that?" And the first steps were taken there.

Coming from a teaching background, the way someone teaches is very important to me. I was really impressed by the way you and the other Piel Canela dance instructors teach. Where do you think those skills came from? Did your team members learn that from you?

Well, when it comes to our instructors, they really provide me a huge resource. Most of the instructors at the school started out as students at the school. So they've gone through all the different levels, they've seen my teaching method at different levels, and really experience the student side of things. Now, the instructors at our school are also part of our dance company.

Once they've decided that they DO want to start teaching, I put them through a rigorous program. We have to sit down and go over everything that's inside our curriculum to make sure that each one of the instructors teaches exactly the same way that I would teach as far as the material.

But as far as the actual WAY that they teach the material, eventually each one of them takes that same model that I've set for them and they turn it into their own. And they give it their own personality - their own jokes, their own repertoire as far as HOW they actually teach it. But the material remains the same, which makes it easier for me because when students eventually go up through the levels of classes and then they come to MY classes, I know full well that they've been taught the material the correct way.

I guess I have this stereotype of the finance world being so rushed - a kind of go go go mentality - and then I think of teaching as requiring a lot of patience and having to slow things down. Where do you think you got that knack for teaching, especially with your background in finance?

Yeah, I agree with you. I think finance is go go go, especially if you're on Wall Street and you're a trader. It's insane. But in the finance world, everything is broken down for you. Everything is a template. So it makes it easier to sell a specific product once it's made into a template. Since I have that background, you can see that my school is built on the same premise. We have a curriculum made up for every class, a template for the instructors to follow, to make it easier to teach, and easier for any students to learn.

And I think that through my past career, I actually developed a patience that has helped me in this career. And the instructors in my company, who were at one point students, acknowledge the fact that I AM so patient. I break things down so minutely, that they see the benefit of it, and pass it on to their teachings as well.

I think I've been lucky to have been exposed to many instructors in the dance world, not just in salsa, but I do have other dance experience in jazz, ballet, modern and lyrical. I even have a little bit of exposure to ballroom, hip hop and Afro Cuban. I myself have put together my teaching style from the plethora of instructors that I've gone through in all of these different styles. I've take classes with classical teachers and I've taken classes with teachers who teach more street style dancing. And everybody has a specific way of teaching. I think I've taken what I've liked of each one of them and put them together to create my own style.

Looking at the bios of the other members of the dance team, it seems that they are all quite like-minded as far as their views on dance. They also all have such varied careers outside of dance. Is that a coincidence or do you look for very specific qualities in your dancers, when choosing people for your team?

One of the things that made me successful was that I surrounded myself with people who were very like minded, who were very like me - goal-oriented people, people who could multi-task, people who were quick, witty, and positive. So I think when I look for dance company members, I look for that very quickly. And I'm very protective of my company members because it has taken such a long time to get such a great group of people together. Not only do they know how much PCD (Piel Canela Dance Company) has affected their lives, but they want to promote this positive sense going forward. So the only way to do that is to secure the success of the school. They say in business that if you surround yourself with successful people that you yourself will be successful. Well, it's the same here with the dance company.

And you know how they say dogs kind of look like their owners (laughs)?

Yes (laughs).

(LAUGHS) - I think students often "look" like, or are similar to, their teachers. If you look at us in comparison to other schools, I think you'll see that. I come from a professional background-business oriented, I multi-task and so forth. My students are probably going to be the same way. The demographic of our company is VERY different than other teams in New York. There is nobody on our team who is NOT a professional in some way. Yes, we are all dancers, but we have engineers, we have doctors, we have computer programmers, CEO's, graphic designers, presidents of different companies, IN our dance company. Our dance company takes people by surprise BECAUSE of that. Our dancers are professionals in their respective careers, but have a passion for dance, a very STRONG passion for dance. The demographic of our students is similar to that as well. We cater to everybody, but it just so happens that the people who tend to gravitate towards us are professionals as well. They are career minded and goal oriented. When it comes to our school, it's interesting to look at the diverse group of people in it. I'm happy with that. I think it's a formula that works. I think that people who find others who are like minded tend to stick together. And it creates an even stronger student body going forward.

I found it interesting to see that dancing not only helped YOU reduce stress, but other members of your team have included stories in their biographies about how dancing helped them deal with loss of family members, or helped their health in various ways. It is great to see that your team recognizes the power of dance to heal.

It is definitely interesting to see the relationship between dance and how it affects people's lives. We once did a survey to find out why people came to dance. We were always curious about that. The number one reason why people came to dance was because they wanted to meet somebody new. They wanted to make friends, which I thought was great. I thought, wow, the more students we have, the more that gets reinforced. And that's been working, obviously.

The second reason why they wanted to get into dance was because they wanted to try something new, something that would take them out of their ordinary lives. They wanted to break out of their shells. They've been timid and shy their whole lives and they wanted to meet new people and to break out of that shell. They see dance as being as a way to help with that and also as a source of exercise. I've got people who have stopped paying their monthly dues at a gym to start paying their monthly dues at PCD because of the exercise they get from dancing.

Why do you think people come to Piel Canela in particular?

I think that people see the allure of the school. The people already at the school - the students and teachers - are nice and friendly. They recognize that they can gain confidence through dancing and they enjoy that. And there's a family feel to the school. PCD also brings families together through dance. I have parents and their children often coming to classes together. This saves parents babysitting fees because they can bring their kids to classes designed particularly for kids, while they take their own classes in another room. And they can talk about dancing with their kids afterwards. It gives the parents and children something new to talk about and opens up the communication between them.

Students of PCD see all these positive aspects of the company so they want to be a part of that. They want to be part of an organization that is bigger than them selves, something they can really believe in, something that's tangible.

So in whatever form of dance we teach - whether it be samba, cha cha cha, bachata, Afro Cuban, jazz, belly dancing, lifts and dips - they find release in the dance. They find release in finding new people, in socializing. They find release in going to the events - the practicas and the socials, or whatever event that we're working on in that month. They find release in just being taken to a completely whole other world because of dance. And I think that's what attracts more and more people to our school.

I haven't gotten a chance to participate in, or observe, any of your music classes. Could you say a little bit about them?

Our music classes are wonderful, PERIOD (laughs). I'll tell you where that idea came from. The best ideas for our school I would say have come from either our existing students or people that want to become students of our school. The music class came from the idea that people wanted to understand the music better. Even people who have grown up with this kind of music hear it innately but they still can't describe what they hear or explain what they hear. So you get a lot of, "Just listen to the music and the music will tell you what to do." But what does that mean?

So we started off with timing classes that we still have today. And the timing classes really helped a lot of people. I would say they helped about eighty percent of the people who were having problems. But we still had about twenty percent of the people who were falling to the wayside because they still weren't getting it.
So I started incorporating instrumentation into our timing classes. I would bring in a clave, I would bring in a cowbell, I would bring in a timbale, or conga to the class. And I would play the specific rhythmic pattern that was being played in the piece of music, and people were eating it up. They were saying, "Okay, I can hear it now! I can see what you were talking about." I would show them that this is the conga – Doo Doom Ka Ka, Doo Doom, Ka Ka (as he taps his fingers to the beat of the conga on his coffee cup), and they would listen to the music and say, "I hear that. I hear that." So that began the process of us saying maybe we need to start music classes, on a continuous basis. Taking one workshop once every month is minimal compared to doing it every single week. So that's where it started.

Our first music coordinator - Kwami Coleman - did an excellent job at establishing the initial curriculum of the school and the direction of the school. He is a very patient music professor. But Kwami moved to California, so this year we brought in a different instructor - Jessica Rodriguez. She has done an amazing job to kick off the program once again.

So the students are actually playing the instruments?

Yes! That's the thing. The students were so excited about the timing classes that they wanted to learn to play the instruments and develop different rhythmic patterns for each one of the instruments. And even THAT got taken to the next level, because at one point, we even had a little band that was playing from the existing music school students.

Initially, this all started as a tool so that people could hear the music, the instrumentation of it. Now it's gotten to the point where people are concentrating on the specific instrument they want to play and it's great.

And as you know, at our socials, we bring in live bands. We're probably one of the only socials that have live bands all the time. So these music inclined students are now coming and seeing these live bands play. To them, that's like heaven. There they see these instruments being played by a professional. Last year we had some of the people from the bands come in and give master classes. You have Jimmy Bosch coming in and talking about the trombone. You have Ocho y Mas coming in and talking about how to play timbales, you have Frankie Morales coming in and talking about vocalization. So where else can you get that? There's no place like that. And that's where we're headed with the music school - giving the students something new and exciting to help them learn about the music and the instruments and incorporate it into their dancing.

I was very interested in your kids program because of my background as an elementary school teacher. I noticed that your program for kids is free.

Yes. That program started about a year and a half ago. It's a little hard for us because we're located in the heart of Manhattan and not a lot of people with kids live here. Most people live in the outer boroughs or upper and lower Manhattan. So it's a little hard because we're right smack in Midtown. But being a non-profit organization, we want to give back to the community as much as possible. So we started a free kids program. Now our kids program is quite unique because in the beginning we advertised simply with "Come for Free" and that was it. But the kids would come for two or three weeks and then would drop out of the program. And the parents wouldn't care because they weren't paying anything.

Then we decided to rearrange this program. I think I came up with a great formula: we charge a registration fee of twenty dollars, for each child, for an eight to ten week class cycle. And as long as the child comes to every one of the sessions, they don't have to pay anything. It's completely free except for the twenty dollar registration fee. We charge a parent ONLY when a child DOESN'T come to class. So it keeps the parent engaged, and it keeps the student coming. And for those students who do come every single time, it's a free program. So it works really well. Once we did that, our program just went up the wall.

Sounds great. Does the program include teens as well?

We are trying the same thing out with teenagers now for the first time in the fall. I find that teenagers want more of a variety. They don't only want to do salsa. So what we came up with was to have twenty dollars unlimited dance cards for teenagers aged thirteen to seventeen. So now you can come to our school, and if you're in that age bracket, you can take EVERYTHING, every single dance class, from the many styles of dance that we offer, and it's all for just twenty dollars! That's unheard of! And the reason for us doing that is that we are hoping that when these young men and women eventually become adults, they will continue taking classes with us. Or they will participate in the events with us. Or who knows? Maybe THEIR kids will come to our classes eventually. That's why we are catering to that age group. They are the future, after all.

What about the future of Piel Canela as a whole? What do you envision for the school a few years down the line?

Well, I'll tell you where I'd like to see it in two years. We are currently working with a new concept. This is our new goal. It's only been this year that we have decided to really push the envelope with fundraising, grants, donors and sponsor programs. That's one side of the business that I think we're really lacking in, but we are focusing on it now and as we go into the next year or two.

I would also like to see that Piel Canela grows into something bigger, in terms of infrastructure. Currently, we have four or five locations we're working on. I'd like to see them all under one big umbrella, one solid ten or twelve thousand square feet location in the middle of Manhattan. That's number one. I think once we do that, we are no longer going to be seen as the Piel Canela Dance and Music School, but we'd like to take on a second name and call it the Piel Canela Center of Latin Arts at that point. We are very close to going in that direction, of creating a cultural center - a place where we can have guidance counselors for teens going into college, a place where if you want to learn dance, of course you can come and learn dance or music. But maybe you want to learn about Latin Literature, or take cooking classes and learn about Latin food, or take pottery classes or learn about basket weaving from a Latin artist. Once we have our own location, the sky is really the limit. I see us expanding into schools and creating an outreach program.

We also have this show called Que Rico Mambo, which is happening in May. It's happening in an 800 seat theater. I would like us to travel with that show. I see us leading the way to pushing our style of dance to be recognized as a classical form of dance, as an art form. I want our school to HELP reach that goal for the mambo community. I want to really expand in the Latin arts, within the culture itself and expose it to this area of New York City. And I think if we can do that, many of our programs will come together with this one big Piel Canela Center of Latin Arts idea. So I think that's where we are headed over the next two years. After that, who knows?

One thing at a time, right? (laughs)

Yeah, exactly, one thing at a time. Actually, people ask me where I find the time for everything. Let me tell you that the people I surround myself with are very dedicated to the Piel Canela Dance Company. I wouldn't be anywhere if it wasn't for the dance company members - past, present and future. The dance company members really pull through for me. The longer they stay with me, the more it works out to a better fit. Eight years ago, we only had my self. Piel Canela was Joe Burgos. That was it. So if I needed to go promote, it was me. If I needed to do accounting, it was me. If I needed to do a show, it was me. If I needed to go teach, it was me. Everything was ME ME ME ME. Over time, and since we've built up a nice strong group of people, everybody has something that they are interested in, because of whatever background they came from. And the school just grows and develops because of their contributions and ideas in those areas.

In the end, I don't care if people don't remember my name after I'm gone. What I'm doing is not about Joe Burgos. As long as they remember what Piel Canela - the dance company - has done, that's what's important to me. If Piel Canela paves the way for something greater, and people recognize that, that's what will really make me proud. That's when I'll feel like I really accomplished something

Find out more about Joe Burgos and Piel Canela at pielcaneladancers.com